hey ppl.. this is my first post here...i stumbled across this site this morning and tht its absolutely amazing...

anyway i've been playing for about 2 yrs now and have been totally blown away by satriani's style and sense of melody.. i'm also pretty obsessed with speed and like playing heavy distortion licks pretty fast with palm muting ... now from what i hear of satriani's music, it seems to be all hammer ons and pulloffs, but done so fluently that it sounds really quick ... especially the shred section in the middle of devil's slide etc... i've been trying hard to develope a technique of one pick per note while playing scales, scale extensions etc.. but its pretty hard and frustrating after a while cause i haven't been able to get past a point with the metronome.. so i've resorted to fast picking with my right hand while my left hand does its stuff but it sounds pretty messy and scratchy...

i just wanted to know if perfect picking of each note takes a while or is it just me??? and how do i get about to working with speed with just hammerons and pulloffs??

thanks..
kapil

start slow. joe says, play slowly, but don't get a single note wrong. then you don't develop errors.

yeah , playing fast does take some time.
i suggest you get a metronome..start at 65 bpm and work your self up
even doing straight 1/4 notes i note /beat will help, then move onto 8th notes ect

My advice or the way I got myself to reasonable shape as far as speed goes is following. Everything starts with knowing scales, there are zilions of them, learn those you will want to use for your style , be able to play them in all possible shapes over 2, 3 octaves and start slowly, forget about speed first. Once you get that start using different melodic variations again slowly and dont go any futher unless you can get new stuff 100% right 100 times of 100. Here is a site which can give you enough exercises for another couple of years http://www.zentao.com/guitar/patterns/melodic-1.html. THere are something like 120 of them. Now say you know 5 shapes of a scale over 2 octaves - pick 1st pattern and go up and use same pattern down, slowly first then as you feel ready increase speed and move on next pattern. This is not much fuch at first but over the time you will notice you can play it without even thinking about it. Say you pick major, dorian and mixilydian scale for today. Get them all done in 5 shapes spending 30 minutes on it. After couple of months (or weeks that depends) you will be for sure in better shape. I've been doing this for some years now at the start of my practise session and I have cought myself many times reading magazine or thinking about something complete else while running up and down at 220. It is all about practise. And one more thing I found was you need to have right pick, I used to have very light one I was missing hits all the time, then I switched to heavy - i use dunlop 1.45 now - I got better almost over night. Ok, talking too much . time to practise now .... :-)

i would suggest separating melody (scales) from speed (technique).

learning every note on the neck will enable you to play in any key at any time. forget patterns, they encourage you to play in predictable ways, which can make you sound like everybody else ;)

definitely get a metronome (even a software one is adequate). one of the things with speed is coordination of the two hands. play some "unmusical" things to the metronome, say frets 1-2-3-4 over all six strings as 8th notes at a slow tempo.

as the alien said don't make any mistakes! make sure every note you play is with intention and conviction, every note rings truly and accurately. when you're totally comfortable click up the metronome. take your time. there's no rush :)

and for working on your legato, pick each string only once, hammer on (and pull of for descending) the other notes. make sure they ring loud and clear. as loud and clear as the picked note.

this is all just my opinion - it doesn't mean i'm right! ;)

"forget patterns, they encourage you to play in predictable ways, which can make you sound like everybody else "

I agree forget that ...just learn 1-2-3-4 on all strings and then start staring at the wall ...if nothin comes stare a bit longer... have some joint that might help and them all of the sudden all will come based on your newlly acruired technigue .... :lol:

Sorry could not help it ;)

But seriously you have a point there, but then again unless you are born genius you have to start somewhere. I've got couple of friends studing jazz guitar at uni and what they learned before they were alloved to start improvising?...they were suggested by their mentors to learn as many patterns as possible - not to sound like parrots but to get idea how to start developing fretboard gymnastics... If that is incorrect approach they I am sincerelly asking you to reveal your secret how to get really good.

hey thanks guys for all the help :D .... i checked out that site mode_twister and its crazy... there are soo many patterns to try out... i definately have to take a printout of it and put it away... right now i'm working on the modes....

anyway i've just realized it isn't as easy as it sounds.... by the way i already have a drum machine on my pedal but its pretty irritating having to work with a rock beat or whatever ... are there digital metronomes available in the market that also keep compound time signatures?

heres a site for an online metronome:

www.metronomeonline.com

Feelinggggg!, not speed lol :P

mode twister: what i did was learn the key of c everywhere on the neck, and play nothing but that key for something like 2 weeks... then change key to g (all i've done is change one note), again do that for however long it takes until i'm entirely comfortable... then change key to d (again, i've only changed one note), then a, then e, then b etc

in a relatively short amount of time i can play in any key all over the neck without having learned a single pattern :)

it worked for me, doesn't make me right or anything ;)

thats a good idea. ill try that soon. i pretty much done that with E minor all my life. i guess it's a good idea to change.

PhryDom: That's sounds as a good idea to learn scales and it is not that different from I did . I learn scales by using CAGED system and started same as you c, d ....... and was able to cover whole neck prety soon, and and after that learning modes was just a breeze. So no dissagrement with you on that, for that matter I dont dissagree with you at all ;)

Its just we started all talking about different things here eventually. Initial post was about speed, and I added patterns and you added how to learn scales and then someone came with importance of having feelings hmmmm .... . :rolleyes:

I guess we are all right in our ways, arent we . There are many ways to get there.

THATS WHAT I'M DOIN!!! :lol: :lol:

I just pulled out one paragraph here...


I've always thought that one of the most crucial abilities you need to teach yourself guitar is to be able to identify your weaknesses, and then find ways to eliminate them. So, let's look at this methodically and see what you come up with.

If I follow you correctly, your issue here is twofold - first, you can't pick quite as fast as you'd like. That's not a huge deal, and is something that will come with time if you keep working on it (you won't build lightning fast speed overnight, afterall).

The bigger issue, however, is while your picking hand is fairly fast, your fretting hand can't quite keep up, and the results sound sloppy. To remedy this, so far you've been focusing on your picking.

I think you're going about it absolutely backwards. The weakness you're perceiving is that your picking tecnique sounds sloppy, but where you're off (and for the sake of discussion I'll assume that your pcking technique is reasonably smooth and even) is really the fretting component, and not the picking one. So, what you have to do here is isolate what your left (fretting) hand is doing, and look for ways to improve that.

My advice to you would be to start doing legato drills with a metronome. Start simple, with just basic 1-2-3-4 chromatic picking drills plated totally legato- pick the first note, but hammer on to the second, 3rd, and 4th notes and then pick the note on the next string. Do this, gradually speeding up your metronome, until you can play a fast, even 16th note stream at about the tempo you can pick it at. Try practicing this clean rather than distorted - it'll help you really hear your note articulations. In fact, my legato technique only really came into its' own when I started practicing unplugged. It's worth a shot, at least.

Then, start finding scale runs and melodic motifs that you play that you find your fretting hand has trouble keeping up with your picking. Find them, identify them, isolate the problem areas, and eliminate them.

If you continue to focus on alternate picking in this situation, all that will happen is that your picking hand will continue to run away from your fretting. However, if you identify your fretting hand as the true cause of this problem and take steps to improve it, your overall playing will improve and as your hands get more in sync, your picking will sound much tighter.

Identify, isolate, and eliminate. Remember this. ;)

thats a brilliant idea.

well i have small fingers, which kinda limit my stretching n stuff. so any ideas how i can deal with that?

Well, the point is YOU are supposed to learn how to find out what's wrong, and find ways to fix it.

So, your problem is you have problems with stretches, right? (It's not your "small hands," that's simply making excuses to explain why you can't do something you want to be able to do. It's that you have problems with stretching).

So, let's elaborate. Is it that you have trouble physically reaching, is it that you have trouble doing stretches at the speed you want to be able to, or is it that you have trouble fretting cleanly when you do wider stretches? These are three very different problems, and would probably suggest different ways to fix them.

Feeling, WITH speed! :lol:

" Feeling, WITH speed! "

Depends what speed we are talking about. If you listen to those guys who can clock 35-40 notes per second then that is pure boredom - not time to aply any feelings to that - and who wants to listen to that. And if you go as high as that Norvegian freak who was clocked at 43 notes per second then you cannot even hear anything but one continuous hamming sound - that is way over the top. Speed is good but is a short bursts, if you overdo it than you really kill real music.

ok here's an example-i cant play the stretching think of FIABD, when he just breaks into the solo, the 3-5-7 hammering, just after the feedback sustain thing.

wow... thats pretty cool .... thanks drew :rolleyes: .... i never tht of looking at it that way... yeah the basic prob is like u said.. my fretting hand is way slower than my picking hand and my legato technique is pretty poor.... i was trying some legato exercises from john petrucci's rock discipline and i found them really really hard... i have to work on them...

So your problem is you just can't reach that far? Well, in that case, you want to find a way to replicate those same motions, but make them progressively harder. The easiest way to do that, I would think, would be to mirror that same pattern, but kick it up an octave where the stretch isn't as far. So, instead of 3-5-7, why not start practicing 15-17-19? Do that against a metronome, focusing on keeping your articulation perfect and your timing dead-on, and once that feels comfortable, drop down a fret to 14-16-18. Do that for a while, then play 13-15-17, and then 12-14-16, and continue to work down, slowly and gradually, until you're comfortable playing not only 3-5-7, but also 1-3-5. This may take days or weeks, so don't rush it.

Then, because anything worth doing is worth overdoing, why not try 15-18-21 and work that down? ;)

That's how I'd work on improving my stretches along a single string, anyway. ;)

Satrianifreak, no worries, man. Just keep that underlying principle in mind; whenever you have a problem, see if you can determine what's causing the problem, and when you do, work on that one aspect of it until it goes away, and your overall technique will clean up.

Guitar Dojo's Need for Speed Lesson 1.

1.Metronome (Dr. Beat)
2. 3 Liter of Mountain Dew
3. Set aside 8-12 hours a day
4.Paul Gilbert's Intense Rock I, II and Terrifying Guitar Trip.
5.Practice what you learned
6.Sleep
7. Wake up - Eat somethin

Next Day Do it again (Even the videos)

Do this for 5 days and you can bet you will be faster on the 6th day! ;)

speed comes with strength in your fingers, but remember to start slowly or you'll end up making lots of mistakes. Paul Gilbert and John Petrucci are two extremely gifted players when it comes to the fast stuff, I recommend studying a few of their pieces to get a feel for it. But they also play really melodic stuff that isn't necessary flashy. If I was only allowed to give you one piece of advice, it would be as follows; don't become a one-trick pony, speed isn't everything. I recommend 'Guitar Shop' by Jeff Beck to give you an idea of how you can make your guitar sing. Enjoy, and good luck!

maybe we should pin this topic. it's so helpful

My advice would be to not think about speed that much rather than the music.
I guess speed will come the more comfortable you are with the guitar. Its useless to just try to play faster because its "Cool". I guess you have to decide whether to join the list of millions of people who can play 100 miles an hour or those who think music more than speed.

But in general do it slow and then keep taking it up a notch. Another aspect is to get some strength and confidence into your fingers. Do things that you find almost imposiible over and over till you get it right. First step is to play maybe difficult patterns and complicated runs (try some of Steve Morse licks and songs) slowly and get used to it and then push it forward.

But my general response to people who ask me how to play fast is "Screw playing fast play some blues instead"

Some people just got to figure it out for themselves. If you want to "Shred o Noodle" then do it. If you want to play faster - do it. Practice Practice Practice!

You dont have to play fast all the time. Its a nice skill to have under your belt when you need it.

Like Michael Angelo Batio says :Its like driving a Lamborgini, you dont drive it around 210 everywhere you go, its nice to have it when you need it. "If you got it Flaunt it" and you can do it tastfully too!

Hmm like the saying goes, don't run before you can walk. Speed is a natural thing, which matures in your playing with time. Its best to learn your chords/scales and make sure you can remember the majority of them. Then practice the scales and keep increasing your speed. I see that you said you can't reach some areas of the notes you want to play, thats not a serious problem as i only play mostly with 3 fingers, i manage fine like that, but if you can't reach those notes then just drop down to the next string to make it easier(if your still learning the basics of guitaring, then i do suggest learning to use 4 fingers)Also speed isn't everything, some of Joe's best songs are played slowly with feeling, but he has the speed there if need be. If you listen to Malmsteen(although his very talented)he uses speed to show of, where as joe uses his speed to express his feelings, same with Steve Vai to(guy is a bloody artist). Someone like Brian May is another great example, plays with alot of feeling but does have the speed if he needs it ;) End of the day m8 ppl can say you must do this/that, but personally i think it just comes with experience and time :)

yeah, give most importance to feel. and try to interpret music in your own ways. i dunno how u'll do that, but u'll figure it out soon. try simple stuff like sabbath and maiden to start off, then try complex stuff. give more importance to bends and slides too. u might take a whole year to get bends right. they are quite tough, until u get the hang of it. and what better songs to learn bends from than satch songs.

God, you want to hear some amazing bending? Check out the solo on Albert King's "Personal Manager." If I recall correctly, the entire second chorus of the main lead break is simply bending the 8th fret up to the 10th. But, every single time he hits the note, he plays the bend slightly differently. Once you figure out what he's doing, it's just as impressive is a cascading 32nd note legato run.

(oh, and the rest of the solo's pretty damned good too ;))

Wow - This thread is nutz! The guy just wanted to increase his speed! lol :P

Yngwie.

Say what you want, but the man has feel. His reputation as a pure shredder is unwarranted if you really listen to him. The melody in Black Star is pure feel and just happens to have some fast parts.

Look at Eruption - pure feel with lightning speed. That tapping part at the end gives me goosebumps every time I hear it.

That's why I think Van Halen did so well. He was able to perfectly combine shred and soul for both the technical crowd and the general public. Nobody has done that since EVH came along.

PIN THIS, PIN THIS PIN THIS!!!

and more interesting is his classical touch. it's nice to hear classical stuff on guitar. but u have to agree, after some extent, Yngwie's music is not new anymore.

I'd love to hear Yngwie's version of Flying IN A Blue Dream..... :P

Hey I was not using any concrete name as an example of "speed playing gone bad". I had in mind guys who are playing much faster then Ingwie and there are quite a few but there are all mostly 3rd tier players based of their actual achievements. I said 35-40 notes per sec is next to insane or totally useless . Steve Vai was clocked at 26.3...Morse 25...Ingwie 24 and all of these are great but not only players but also composers - speed is for them only one of the tools of the trade. Nothing wrong with that. I only meant to highlight those who are hitting 40ties -- after hearing that "music" I decided it was pointless crap and nothing worth of going after.

everyone in here is saying it just start slow... i started 3 years ago slow and steady and im gradully building up great speed and accuracy. accuacry is also very important but done over do it with speed cas you can hurt your hands

*in fact my hands are kiling right now lol, hope i aint got RSI lol

yngwie is a great player no doubt... but i personally think he needs to slow down at times cause he's always racing at top speed... i heard a cover of dream on and he was shredding in that as well.... which ruins the beauty of the song.... but anyway his technique is fantastic....

Ah, I have to stop you right there. That statement proves you've never listened to that much Yngwie. He doesn't always race at top speed all the time. I can never understand why people make that claim... >_<

"motorcycle_driver: but u have to agree, after some extent, Yngwie's music is not new anymore."

The same can be said of almost every artist. Even Satch.

When I was waiting for Joe After show - his manager said he would be there in a while cause he had to ice down his fret hand.

This is what happens when you go too fast!!




Maybe this is why there was talk of retirement! :huh:

yeah, but at least satch has slowed down for SC. and vai uses thoughtful shredding.