What is the formula diffrences between the two ? Because dominant7 is still 1-3-5-7 so surely major7 is also 1-3-5-7? meaning they are the same but has 2 names? Or have i got the formula for dominant7 wrong?

dominant 7 =1 3 5 7b

Why does the name of the chord not follow the rules of other chord names then.

Cos if you have something like Minor 7th or Major 7th it means theres a 7th. But with dominant it means its a flat 7th... personally wouldn't it be more correct to call them "Dominant b7" ?

min7 does have a b7...

maj7 = 1 3 5 7
min7 = 1 b3 5 b7
V7 = 1 3 5 b7

You're right about that Sirchick.

at min7 the min refers to the 3rd.
at maj7 the maj refers to the 7th.
The dominant 7th is called major/minor 7th.

Unfortunately there isnt an obvious way to learn the names of all the chords.

i think the word dominant is used because of the classic V7-I progression. the V7 seems to dominate the entire key in its desire to resolve to the I. well that's what my old theory books said anyway :-/

But if minor7th is 1-b3-5-b7..

then why is there such a chord named "Minor b7th" ?

Minor b7th? where did you sse it referred to as minor b7th?Is it the eg. Co7 chord?is that the diminished chord? If i am right it has a bb7th note!

bb7th would be 1-b3-b5-bb7 (or -6) which wouldnt be wrong.

I know them as this:

1-3-5-7 = Delta chord
1-b3-5 = Minor
1-3-#5 = Augmented
1-b3-b5 = Diminished
1-3-5-7 = major dominant
1-b3-5-7 = minor dominant
1-b3-b5-b7 = half diminished
1-b3-b5-bb7 = diminshed7th (or 1-b3-b5-6)

Both would be correct. Even if you should say bb7.

Well Dave if you know them as that where did the minor b7th come from? Did you see that somewhere else?

I think bb7 is more appropriate because you are relating it to a major scale. If you called the note a 6 then you may then be right to call it a major 6th or minor 6th but it has to fall into context with the other chords that it forms a progression.

Yeah, where'd you get this stuff? What's a delta chord? What's a minor dominant???

Oh, and strictly speaking b6 is not the same as bb7, just like C## isn't the same as D and Cb isn't the same as B.

Anyway, for a major scale harmonised in sevenths it's this:

I = maj7
ii = min7
iii = min7
IV = maj7
V = 7 = dominant 7 = V7 = dominant
vi = min7
vii = min7b5

Your dominant major is the same as the delta chord 1-3-5-7!! never heard of major dominant or minor dominant just maj7th, minor 7th, dom7th, 1/2dim7th or dim 7th.

Maj 7th 1-3-5-7
min7th 1-b3-5-b7
Dom 7th 1-3-5-b7 (refers to the 3rd being major compared to minor 7th) this is same principal as Phrygian Dominant vs Phrygian they differ in the 3rd being major in the Phrygian Dominant.

min 7thb5- 1-b3-b5-b7

dim7th 1-b3-b5-bb7

there are of course some additional altered and sus chords that are 7ths.

I learnt it when i was learning Jazz theory.

Delta chord is a triangle shape it looks like this:

Δ = Delta
- = Minor
+ = Augmented
o = Diminished
7 = Dominant7th
b7 = Dominant flat7th
ø = Half Diminished



the list goes on, but this is where it gets complicated if you have chords that can be one or t'other u have huge formulas in the making...

so like a EbΔ+b13

that has told u the entire formula:
1-3-#5-7-9-11-b13

#5 = + = augmented
7 = /_\ = delta7th = major 7th for you rock fans :P
Eb is the root note and b13 is flat 13th lol!

Overall all that chord is a "Eflat delta7th augmented flat 13th" or "Eflat major7th augmented flat 13th"

The interesting thing about this chord in particular, is there is no major 5th cos its #5th cos of the augmented... which is why its one of them chords that allows you to kinda choose major or augmented. Your scale for melody or lead would have to be slightly diffrent meaning you would have to hit only 1 37 9 and 11, and wait till you go to the next chord in sequence which would determine weather it goes to another augmented key or a major key...

One good chord that is complex is the one joe sweeps over on the MPHGT with that fancy trick.. nice voicing! if i knew the tab i could get the name, but i really dont want to right now.


This is what i been learning lol I learnt it very quickly. Makes alot of sense to me but its only useful when u got huge complicated jazz chords.


Delta is = Major basically... so Delta7th is major 7th etc

In orchestra composition and classical music and jazz/blues they say delta its only rock etc that say major cos it was the opposite of minor.

makes sense i hope :S ?


You should see some of Eric Johnson's notes he showed one on a video.. it was long before i learnt this and it looks like alien language to me. Cos we all know he has quite nice chord voicings

Can you explain that one ? I've not see a C## before :S

you're confusing yourself. the triangle means major

check out this page

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/jazz-chord-symbols.html

forget delta, just say major.


regarding C##, well let's say you have a scale whose formula is

1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 1 (yep, the lydian modem why not?! lol)

and your root note is G#. follow the pattern and write out the scale

you might initially get this

G# A# C D D# F G G#

this is not actually correct. you need to use each letter only once, so you need to add sharps or flats to make it enharmonically correct. the correct version is this

G# A# B# C## D# E# F## G#

yes, that's a very rare example (it might be better to write it in Ab than G# - go ahead and try it!) but basically if you encounter a raised not that's already sharp then it becomes a double sharp. similarly a flattened note that's already flat will become a double flat. also, to be enharmonically correct you don't mix sharps and flats in any scale or key. it's one or the other ;)

So why do they say not to use same letter twice? Any reason or is just the way it was chosen to be?

Also if you read this:
The first and fourth are major seventh chords (also called 'Delta chords' or Δ chords'), the second, third and sixth are minor seventh chords, the fifth is a dominant seventh chord while the last, the seventh, is called a minor seventh flat five chords.

From this source:
http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory17.htm

It is still correct its just diffrent musicians use diffrent names.. i grew learning the word delta from the books i chose.

This stuff all goes back to classical theory and it's interesting to note that the degrees of the major scale were given the following names:

I Tonic
II Supertonic
III Mediant
IV Subdominant
V Dominant
VI Submediant
VII Leading Tone

So the word dominant in classical theory actually refers the the 5th degree of the major scale. As the chord built from this degree has 1, 3, 5, b7 us rockers, jazzers etc. have gotten used to talking about the b7 as the dominant 7.

There are lots of good classical theory books if you're really interesting in digging deeper into some of the conventions we've inherited. One I'm referring to right now is Harmony by Walter Piston. I also have Elie Siegmeister's Harmony and Melody, but I think this may be out of print these days.

But don't forget that music is really all about sounds and our crude attempts to give names to these can often cause confusion and it can certainly be the case the same set of notes has multiple names depending on the situation.

Cheers
Rob

That is partly correct. In classical western music theory each chord is given a name depending on its primary and secondary functionality in a composition...

I = Tonic (Primary chord)
II = Supertonic (secondary chord)
III = Mediant (secondary)
IV = Sub-Dominant (Primary)
V = Dominant (Primary)
VI = Sub-Mediant (secondary, 'relative minor')
VII = Leading Tone (misc)

The Primary chords are the strongest, most concord triads in the harmonised major scale, and the dominant is commonly followed by the tonic in a chord progression (i.e. V-I progression) which is called a 'perfect cadance' in classical music. You can also modulate (change key) to the dominant or sub-dominant key for a smooth, effortless key-change. This is often refered to as the "cycle of fourths/fifths".

Hope this isn't too heavy. You can hear a perfect fourth/fifth modulation at the end of 'Crushing Day' which produces a very smooth key changing effect.

Perhaps I worded it a lil oddly, but yes, I'm well aware of the perfect cadence (along with plagal and imperfect etc). Thanks for putting it into English for everyone! :lol: