http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.php?t...6f01#msg_499628

Ok that's the forum/thread. My name on there is Dave665 (not that you'd need to know that due to the statements I make, it's pretty clear who is me) so anyway I am just really really infuriated by this guy saying Satch is a shredder playing at 200 MPH. I used Yngwie as an example as a shredder (just because of his speed) I explained that shredding is just mindless fast notes being playing as technically as possible. Now I know this is most of the time untrue (including Yngwie aswell) but just for those guys on there I figured I'd explain in simple terms.
Thoughts on this? Shall I continue to fight the good fight, or just leave quietly satisfied with my effort? :D

Save your time and your effort.. some people will always stick to their beliefs. Its just like that on every music forum or even youtube. You wont get ANY youtube video of a guitarist (that has been watched more than some times) that doesnt have the typical "discussion":

"omg he is good but MAB is faster!

MAB plays without soul! Hendrix was the best!

Slash pwns them all!!11111

No buckethead man !! "

Yeh I know what you mean. I'm just the kinda guy that loves a good debate lol. It's actually a football forum (soccer to Americans) of the club I support and one of the guys as you can see just posted the vid of Satch in SF playing Rubina. I think I'll leave them be now though. They have suffered the wrath of a Satch fan long enough.

I agree, I get that crap sometimes in the youtube videos. You really can't do anything about it. Even referring them to Saying Goodbye or Home, they repeat the same "mindless shredder" comment. They're beyond help.

But when classic rock guitarists play mindlessly fast and shamelessly show off, it's suddenly 'soulful'.

the problem is the word "shredder"..everyone disagrees on its definition and too many times ive defended it ...so i wont...but my definition is... someone with the ability to play fast and incorporate feeling and expression yngwie and Joe..i consider them shredders also petrucci, vai....mechanical fast players are just that...a blender playing the guitar....not shredder

they all compose decent music using the wonderfull instrument --> the guitar.

I understand, you know, what the proper meaning for a shredder is. And I have respect for anyone that can (I can't :P ). It was just when the guy said that he doesn't play with any soul or emotion that kinda wound me up, because it's nonsense. I figured the best way to explain my point across to him would be to exaggerate, but it still did no good. Oh well lol, can't blame a guy for trying.

And just to add now that i can post:

Joe is not a shredder, he is a legato player.

Shredding = users alternative picking as main style of play ( John Petrucci is good example ) Also does sweeping which usually falls under shredders. (Metal is the main use of shred)

Legato = Hammer ons and pull offs and uses the plectrum less often except for slower melodies,rhythms and some times solos but not extensively like a shredder would.

Joe is dominantly a legato player, how ever if you listen to Time on the LISF DVD he does a shred solo (you can hear the plectrum going like crazy) which is not his usual style. So he can do both but we all know he does legato playing mostly. Legato is my favorite style it sounds more human and expressive. I don't like the sound of a plectrum hitting a string repeatedly fast but thats just me. Though i do like John Petrucci's solos so there are exceptions.

to define joe as a legato player is really narrow & insulting..back in the 80's you were condidered a cheater if you didnt or couldnt pick every note ...he perfectly balances both very well. really lately maybe his legato on improvising is 20-30% of what hes playing....see i told ya the problem is the definition of shredder...every one has some other opinion :lol: i cant speak for all guitarists but anything i can play legato, i can pick...its a matter of choice and expression...but if you pick everything it will sure sound expressionless

Well when i asked him which he prefers to be seen as if there were a choice back stage he said legato for he finds it more expressive... i think i will stick to joe's frame of mind he did also explain the difference slightly more complex than how i wrote it but you get the jist of the difference. Just watch his picking hand alot of the time he doesn't pick at highish speed solos

This isn't the 80ies..

when eoc came out , an article in gw mag sais he was ''the head shredder''

Yeah i know. I have seen him referred as shredder by many even some well experienced guitarists in the music world. I think it's because the term shred has changed. It's probably now just a term used when you want to go crazy all over the guitar and at highish speeds. But there is a huge difference to legato and shredding.

did joe tell you that too...lmao...no there isnt
and the term shred hasnt changed...its people like you who try to change it to fit their own personal opinions..lmao
again..back in the 80's when the term was first coined, it described guitarists like Yngwie Joe, Steve, Lynch etc....fast players with style and expressive
then the people who copied yngwie called themselves shredders when all they were playing was scales fast..... that isnt what the greats were doing...they were the shredders